Sempervivum

Tema en 'Sempervivum' comenzado por khalid monedero, 14/8/07.

  1. Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    hola ,os pongo unas fotos de algunas de mis sempers ,cada dia estan mas bonitas ,no se como se llaman casi ninguna:icon_rolleyes:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    espero que os gusten:beso:
     
  2. ruff

    ruff intermitente

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    Aranjuez, Madrid, España
    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    anikora que preciosidad! bueno me he visto el post casi completo y todas las sempervivums son preciosas!
    yo compre una recientemente, si puedo subo foto, vale?
    besitos
     
  3. aremoricus

    aremoricus

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    4
    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Hola a todos/as!

    At first, sorry to pollute your topic with my rough English but I'm French and I don't speak Spanish language at all. Hope some of you will read and understand me...

    I would like to emphasize the following information about Spanish Sempervivum for anyone having interest in them. I googled a Spanish forum for that and found this topic that seems to be rather active. So I think it's a suitable place:

    For a while, Sempervivum is known to be present in Montes Vascos (cf. Aseginolaza-Iparragire & al. : 263 (1985) - Catalogo Floristico de Alava, Viscaya y Guipuzloa). It is known to grow there at least in two places : above Carranza and on Monte Kolitza. This Sempervivum was identified by the authors as being "Sempervivum tectorum" (with reserves). This ectopic location, very far from wild Pyrenean tectorum (abundant in central crystalline Pyrenees but absent in wild situation from Basque Western Pyrenees), and the very low number of stations (only two!) led to think that these "tectorum" are or were only naturalised plants (S. tectorum, being an old medicinal and magic plant, can be found cultivated and more or less naturalized in the whole Europe out of its natural area, even in areas where other wild Sempervivum grows).

    However, a few later, Sempervivum was reported in one new station a few more westwards from these two previous Basque stations by Aedo C., in An. Jard. Bot. Madrid, 47(1): 150 (1990). This station is in the upper part of the Hoyo de Bernavinto, above La Gándara (Soba). This Sempervivum was identified by the author as being S. vicentei subsp. cantabricum, this name is only a synonym of S. cantabricum subsp. cantabricum. As you know, S. cantabricum is very common in the Cordillera Cantabrica, with a very extended area from east to west along all the high zones of the Cordillera (but it can grow at low elevation in these zones). However, up to this publication, its eastern limit was thought to be in the surroundings of Alto Campoo, very much westwards from Montes Vascos.

    This interesting new location led to reconsider the real nature of the dubious Basque "tectorum". So I took the opportunity of my short holydays in Spain to have a look at these plants. To say the truth, I stopped to deal with Sempervivum for several years and was rather rusty about them but once in Spain mountains, I had a relapse... :martillo:

    I'm just coming back at home... :bailoteo:

    At first, I visited the Monte Kolitza/Coliza (874 m). The upper part is a rather long sloping crest with an old Ermita at the upper top, and some rocks at the lower top. Sempervivum is present on these rocks (schistose sandstone) along the upper border of the small cliff at N43°12'5"-W3°15'11". The station is rather limited in size but rich. The most important fact: this plant is obviously not S. tectorum, it's without any doubt S. cantabricum! :sorprendido:
    The only question about it is: which subspecies? :16duda:
    The rosettes of the local plants being rather big, their apical spots being small or nearly absent and the Sistema Iberico (area of subsp. urbionense) being not very far (no more than the core of the area of subsp. cantabricum), the distinction between subsp. cantabricum and subsp. urbionense is not so easy (in the population of Kolitza, one can note also a rather high number of leaves in each rosette). However, I think this population can be identified as subsp. cantabricum because I checked many flowers in situ and all the stamens was pilose at their base (subsp. urbionense has glabrous stamens generally :profe: ).

    Here are plants from Kolitza in situ:
    opt1312469161n.JPG


    After that new data, the question of the continuity with the area of S. cantabricum more westwards must be uplighted. For that, the plants from Hoyo de Bernavinto needed to be confirmed (because I'm used to never believe the published identifications in this difficult ad confuse genus, even when they are given by good botanists). So I visited this place and saw myself at N43°11'44"-W3°36'37" that the local Sempervivum, growing there on limestone, is really S. cantabricum subsp. cantabricum, as identified by its discoverer. A plant without special features, as so many grow in Picos de Europa for instance.

    Here is a plant from Hoyo Bernavinto in situ:
    opt1312468554j.JPG


    Well, the knowledge of the area of S. cantabricum in Cordillera Cantabrica has much increased and this area is now very extended eastwards in comparison with my previous knowledge! :happy:

    Of course, the station of "tectorum" near Carrenza needs to be checked before to go further in conclusion. Do true wild cantabricum or naturalized tectorum grow there? Unfortunately, I had no time to go there, because the main target of our short holydays was the preromannic Spanish architecture – the marvellous Asturian and Visigoth churchs - not Spanish plants...

    The goal of this message is to encourage more Spanish Sempervivum lovers to explore these places and to explore all the other favourable places in the eastern part of Cordillera Cantabrica and Montes Vascos. I'm sure that some new locations and a lot of new interesting field data can be add to the knowledge of the endemic Spanish Sempervivums. :5-okey:

    * * *

    By the way, the old mention in litterature of Sempervivum "montanum" at the summit of Mt San Cristobal (N of Pamplona) in Colmeiro M., Plantas crasas de España y Portugal (1874), must be checked in situ absolutely. The reality of the presence of S. cantabricum in Montes Vascos leads to give a new interest to this old mention, which was never confirmed(?). I had no time to go there myself. Please, someone among you must do explore this place and its surroundings! :vamos:
     
  4. fsanjuan

    fsanjuan

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    te invito a que investigues sobre la variedad gredense que se encuentra en lugares de accesibilidad bastante complicada de la Sierra de Gredos
     
  5. juan_y_ana

    juan_y_ana

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Hi, Aremonicus. I live in Baque Country, but my wife is from Laredo (Cantabria), near to Carranza.
    Someday I can go to Carranza with a other friend of mine who likes succulents plants too, but the Carranza Valley is very very extensive. So, if you can sent us some coordenates to start the search I will appreciate.

    I don't know the Kolitza Mountain, but I will try to go there.

    Thanks for your information, it's an usefull and interesting data.
    Ah! Great beautifull pictures.
     
  6. aremoricus

    aremoricus

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    You're right about the high interest of studying this plant. :5-okey:

    I know well and from a long time S. cantabricum subsp. gredense (nom. prov.) in situ.

    For this reason, during my recent holydays in Spain (one week ago) I succeed to negotiate with my wife one new full day in the Gredos. :besoboca:

    However this time, I chose not to visit again the known locations of this interesting plant. I preferred to explore some maybe favourable surroundings of the known area of this plant, a very small area. My goal was to try to answer better this question : is the area of this plant really limited to the hangings of the Circo de Cinco Lagunas or not? :15piensa:

    So, once in centre of Gredos I started to climb from the eastern bottom of the Circo de la Laguna Grande (= Circo de Gredos) up to the crests leading westwards from the submit of Pico Almanzor. Then I followed these crests westwards to reach by the backside the crests above the bottom of the Circo de Cinco Lagunas. It was a long and tiring trek without path in chaos of big granite blocks. Outstanding places and landscapes but I saw no Sempervivum in the hangings of the Circo de la Laguna Grande, no one along my trek at high elevation and I visited two collados ending the southern part of the bottom of the Circo de Cinco Lagunas without finding any Sempervivum there. I failed to explore farther along the lateral crests of the Circo to reach the more favourable lateral zones (where I previously found the plants, coming by other easier ways) because of time and tiredness... :llora-llora:

    Of course, the fact I didn't find Sempervivum in this part of the massif is not an absolute proof that it is not present (the zone is big and difficult to access and visit). However it's not the first time I searched for it in the Macizo Central de Gredos out of the hangings of the Cinco Lagunas and I didn't found it elsewhere and nobody never mentioned it out of there (please let me know if I'm wrong). I think hence more an more this plant is really limited to the two high lateral hangings (east wall and west wall) of the Circo de Cinco Lagunas (this long valley is oriented from S up to N). It's a very small area for a very rare plant, a plant which is in my opinion one of the jewels of the endemic Spanish flora and the Gredos is its jewel-box. :corazoncitos:


    Here is a photo of the Circo de Cinco Lagunas seen from its southern bottom high crest. Sempervivum "gredense" can be found inside several small high collados of the two areas uplighted (approximate limits). I'm afraid the whole area of this plant on the planet is included on this photo! :
    klz1312560618r.JPG


    I advise any Spanish plant lover to search carefully for this plant in the whole Macizo Central de Gredos. One full day and good walking shoes are necessary to reach the Sempervivum areas and go back to your car. Even without finding Sempervivum, you'll enjoy the amazing Gredos. It's a splendid massif, very mineral, nearly lunar in some places, and well preserved from human disturbance. A paradise for mountain trekkers. Just a little bit hot in summer for northern people like me... to say the truth, for me this paradise is hot like the hell!

    All new Sempervivum location findings in Gredos would be interesting to know. Caution, take care to not pick too much rosettes in situ because this plant is very rare and very local and is obviously enable to expand its population in situ. It maintains itself there with difficult and with low strengths as likely a relict from previous more favourable times. Every excessive picking would be damageable for it. By the way, the plant can now be easily found in the trade or by swapping with amateurs. No real needs to pick up more in its few known stations. :994nonono:


    Just for the fun, here is another living symbol of The Gredos, the ibex of the Gredos (Capra hispanica), a very abundant and friendly animal in this sierra:
    klz1312560697z.jpg
     
  7. aremoricus

    aremoricus

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Unfortunately, I have no more precise information than those coming from the book I gave you the reference: "Carranza 450 m". :99996leyendo:

    By the way, don't have a great confidence in this elevation and search for any favourable place (more or less steep rocky zones) without considering the elevation, S. cantabricum subsp. cantabricum as well as S. tectorum can grow wild at low elevation.

    I think these low hills are mainly covered by forest, so the favourable places on their slopes and submits are rather few, maybe very few. As a consequence, even if the valley is very big, the zones you will have to explore are surely few and small. I think you won't have any difficult to find the plant, just a little time of walking is needed of course.

    Moreover, more the indication of a location is vague, more the pleasure to succeed to find there the plant is great! :52aleluya:
    After that, by giving us the precise coordinates you will increase the knowledge of this plant.

    Good Sempervivum hunting! :adios:
     
  8. Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Hola:
    os enseño mi última maceta, era una carretilla de juguete.
    puse 4 variedades distintas.
    HPIM5072.JPG

    HPIM5071.JPG
     
  9. Fangorn

    Fangorn

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Hola a todos, estoy en León y os muetro unas fotos de sempers en hábitat, a unos 1.400 m de altitud. Supongo que se trata de la especie cantabricum, tiene la hoja como de terciopelo.

    Espero que os guste!

    bwy1312991321l.JPG
     
  10. ZEPHYRA

    ZEPHYRA

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Aremoricus, congratulations for your trips to the mountains, it must be great to see these plants in habitat:5-okey: You have great knowledge about this genus, it amazing to read the way you wrote:razz: :razz:

    Lidia, te quedaran muy bien, felicidades:razz: los tienes tomando mucha sombra?

    Fangorn, preciosa esa foto, fue lo que desde luego me llamó la atención, las hojas aterciopeladas:razz:
     
  11. ZEPHYRA

    ZEPHYRA

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Os dejo una foto de uno que creo que es Jovibarba, no sé distinguirlos, solo que la flor es diferente y por eso creo que no es Sempervivum:icon_rolleyes:

    cqs1313008929v.JPG
     
  12. Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    HOla:

    ¿es malo tanta sombra?, están debajo de un pino

    porque las cambio de inmediato
     
  13. Fangorn

    Fangorn

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    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Bueno, ahora con el calor quizás está bien, pero realmente son plantas de sol, al menos que les de por la mañana.

    :5-okey:
     
  14. Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    muchas gracias, ya están cambiadas, ahora están mirando al Este.
     
  15. ZEPHYRA

    ZEPHYRA

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    Portugal, Lisboa
    Re: El rincón de nuestras Sempervivum

    Ahora algunos estan muy feos, por el calor, pero otros estan que me gustan mucho:eyey:

    eses en esa macetita de bonsai estan tipo bonsai:11risotada: apenas crescen:13mellado:
    326970

    una flor
    326971

    y eses que me gustaria saber su nombre:13mellado:
    326972